Aircon Leaking Gas - Difficult To Locate Fault Found

[galaxybox]

Having found these forums extremely informative, in my 9 months of Aircon hell, I thought I would just write a quick precis in the hope that someone else might save a few hundred quid and a lot of aggravation.

 

I have posted a few comments in this post http://www.fordgalaxy.org.uk/ford/index.php?showtopic=2227 and it seems at least one other has had the same problem as me, without perhaps knowing exactly what the cure was.

 

Basically, I have a 2001 1.9tdi Galaxy Ghia with climate control.

 

From day one(second hand) it did not work and I had the flashing panel. Into an Aircon specialist and the pump was found to be seized. It wa duely replaced and re gassed..

 

About 7 days later, panel was flashing again and in for testing. Vacum tested OK refilled again as all gas had gone. A squirt of luminesant die added and drove away.

 

A week later same again, but no trace what so ever of any die leaking out.

 

This repeated another 3 or 4 times, each time refilled tested, and a week later, no gas again.

 

As the complete engine bay area of the aircon system could be seen, it was assumed that the evaporator under the dashboard was leaking. 2 days work,

[mumble_bee]

thanks for the info

[mumof4]

Might be worth sticking it in the FAQs Nik?

 

Nice one galaxy box.

[Justice]

A very informative post indeed 10/10 for effort. :)

[dodge]

I have seen this problem myself and yes it

[galaxybox]

Dodge, Your explanation and the terms you used are spot on and what I was trying to explain thanks..

[MrT]

This is a well known fault on the early Mk2 Galaxies, in fact it is so well known that Ford briefed all their garages about the fault and how to fit the replacement better designed condensor. This document/bulletin exists in the Ford TIS, so any reputable Ford Garage should have known about it.

 

Likewise I had the fault for a year or so but knew about the potential cause, however the leak was so small the dye was of no use and I assumed the fault lay elsewhere.

 

TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN No.112/2002

Car and Light/Medium Commercial 28.11.2002

 

 

Section: 412-03

 

Model: Galaxy 2000.75, built up to and including 21.07.2002 (build code 2M)

 

Markets: All

 

Subject: Air conditioning system inoperative or inadequate cooling power; leaks in the air conditioning system

 

Summary

 

Should a customer express concern that the air conditioning system is inoperative or there is inadequate cooling power and there are leaks in the air conditioning system, the probable cause is a corroded/damaged aluminium cover on the air conditioning condenser or a damaged O-ring. To rectify this concern, a new air conditioning condenser should be installed.

 

Production Action

 

A revised air conditioning condenser has been installed in production since 22.07.2002 (build code 2M)

 

[Ogben Schmutzel]

That is exactly what happened to me, even posted a quick video here somewhere of the leak bubbling away. Spent loads of dosh trying to find the fault, dye and everthing, never a sign until that cap on the condensor filter was removed. I had a new condenser fitted but apparently it should have been repairable - new seal I think that you get with the filter replacement kit.

 

Anyway aircon works fine at the moment.

 

Bugger it - last time I said that my problems started!!

 

Cheers.

Oggy.

[tim-spam]

This is a brilliant post - just what this forum is really all about. My aircon has also just developed a small leak (first ever problem with the aircon on my car!) which was proving very difficult to find. So, I removed the dryer cap from the condensor and bingo - leak found. A new condensor is now on order from Eurocarparts, and I shall probably fit it next weekend. Regass from a local aircon guy will cost

[tim-spam]

Just a quick follow-up. The new condenser arrived and was soon fitted - you have to remove the front bumper, but this was an easy job - took me under an hour all in. By the way, always use new 'O' rings and keep the system open for as little time as possible.

 

The system now appears to be holding pressure after a pressure test, vacuum and re-gas, and I have lovely cool air again.

 

I had the re-gas done by a mobile aircon business, and he was very reasonable and more than happy to leave all of the fitting work and parts procurement to me, although he can do this as well if necessary. He charges

[Bigjeeze]

Tim this seems to be what I have - So I just need to remove the bumper and then I can access all of the connections on the condenser?

 

Did you get new seals with the condenser? Or do you buy these separately?

 

 

 

BJ

[seatkid]

When changing any major component in a/c, you should change the dryer as well. Also the part(s) should either be filled with the "appropriate" amount of oil - see TIS - or the "appropriate" amount of oil should be added when the system is recharged. Failure to do this could result in a rapid seizure of the compressor.

[Godxyon]

Can anyone advise if it is required to have your system flushed when replacing a faulty compressor ?

Fraud dealer said there was particles in the system. However as I understand there are always particles in the system from general wear but is it enough to cause a new compressor to fail.

If flush is required how long/much should this cost and which components should be done?

 

 

Oh, and what about a 'compressor guard'.............anyone used one to try and scoop up any muck before it gets to the compressor ?

[tim-spam]

Tim this seems to be what I have - So I just need to remove the bumper and then I can access all of the connections on the condenser?

 

Did you get new seals with the condenser? Or do you buy these separately?

 

 

 

BJ

Yes. Once the bumper cover and the actual bumper behind this are removed, the condenser and its connections are easily removed. You will need a selection of torx bits and a spline key to remove the bumper, and a 6mm allen key for the condenser connections.

 

You will need to buy the 'O' rings separately - around 45p each from VW. Buy 4 or 5 so you have some spares. You will also need some PAG oil to lubricate the 'O' rings - I bought a small bottle of ISO46 PAG oil from an ebay seller.

 

As regards replacing the receiver/dryer, if the system is only opened for a short time, this shouldn't be necessary - but the system should be subject to a deep vacuum for at least 1 hour to 'boil off' any moisture. However, the receiver/dryer is supplied with the new condenser, so this is not a problem - the system should still be subject to a deep vacuum for at least half an hour. Then , when the system is recharged, the correct charge of oil and dye should be added.

[mikej]

Can anyone post up a photo or link showing the location of the condenser filter and the said cap and is it possible to check without strip down or does the bumper need to come off first?

cheers

mike....

[tim-spam]

The plastic cap is in the top of the vertical cylindrical cannister (which contains the receiver/dryer) which is integral with the drivers side of the condenser. The cap has a sloping top and is black. On the Alhambra, it is possible to just pop the right hand grille section out to access it - I don't know about the Galaxy, but it does look a bit more difficult.

 

As an aside, speaking with the aircon. guy, he reckons that the Mk II's are pretty good - a few leaking 'O' rings and some condenser problems. He's known one or two compressors fail, but that is usually caused by a lack of oil in the system. He's only ever heard of one evaporator leak on a Mk II - just as well, as replacement is a little long-winded. Many of the ongoing problems experienced by some owners are caused by dealers' inept attempts at fixing simple problems, with the most common mistakes being replacing the wrong parts and repeatedly opening up the system during their guessing game, which then leads to other failures - eg: compressors, due to contamination or lack of oil. When the aircon. fails, it is usually due to a single fault - if this is correctly fixed, the system should work afterwards. How many people have had their system 'fixed' only to find it still not working?

He also admitted that the Mk I's were terrible, with many parts such as the receiver/ dryer cannister and some of the pipework being very prone to corrosion and fatigue failure.

Edited July 3, 2007 by tim-spam

[Godxyon]

The Ford TIG says that after removing the front bumper you need to remove, or at least drain and drop out the radiator so you can access the condenser fixings. An alternative method (and Fords approved apparently) is to hack off or through some fibre glass brackets or crossmembers (not sure which) so save draining/removing the radiator...............phew what a lot of potential work ! Does anyone know of an easier way or is this really the way. I note it is not mentioned in some of the post above.

 

I have been doing some reading around, in fact thats why I joined the box, as I am having A/C nightmares and am still reeling from the prices being quoted by specialists for compressor and condenser/dryer replacement. Am told this is 10hrs work ! Is it really that hard and time consuming and can ones attempt this by ones self and then get it deep vacuumed and regased at the end only.

 

Whats stopping me is the so called need for a 'system flush' before fitting the parts, I do not have the knowhow or equipment to know what this involves and what it really entails ?

Can anyone advise here

[tim-spam]

What's actually failed? Until we know, we can't really comment about things such as 10 hours labour, except to say that there isn't much on the aircon system that should take that long, apart from the evaporator.

 

As regards removing the condenser, the best way is drill holes in the brakets to access the fasteners and then use a hacksaw to open these up the the edge of the brackets to allow the condenser to be easily removed - this should only take around half an hour, and if done carefully can look fairly neat.

 

The system will only need flushing if the compressor has failed and distributed contamination around the system.

Edited July 5, 2007 by tim-spam

[Godxyon]

Hi Tim-spam

 

Yes sorry, I need to explain a few things.

 

As usual the problem is one of those a/c mysteries where after injecting dye they still can't find a leak. But some previous posts here seem to suggest that it can leak under a plastic cover over the dryer on the condenser, as it seems to be a commonly experienced problem. So I am going to see if I can have a look, hense the quizing about how one gets it off...(I am just preparing for the worst) and wondering if I can perform some of the work myself.

 

So far the local Fraud garage said that the compressor has failed and I have metal paricles in the system. They kindly said they would do the necessary work for 3.5k...................how sweet of them to go through such financial hardship for little old me.

 

Now of course I do not know what needs doing yet, but as I understand it I very likely need to change the compressor (

[tim-spam]

How has the dealer concluded that the compressor has failed? If the system has lost pressure, there is a pressure switch which prevents the compressor from engaging.

 

If I was you, I would do the following:

 

1) Prise off the plastic cap covering the receiver / dryer and see if there's any crud underneath - on mine, I could actually see some fluorescence even without the UV lamp.

 

2) If the system will hold pressure even for a short time, get a mobile aircon. person round to presurise the system with nitrogen and see if the compressor kicks in - only do this very briefly, as it doesn't do it much good to be run with nitrogen (as an alternative, you could use an aerosol of refrigerant from Halfords). Whilst you're at it, you could also do a 'soapy water' test on all of the accessible joints. If the compressor does not work, it may be the clutch - this can be replaced separately for far less than a compressor. If the compressor works reasonably quietly, there should be no need to flush the system.

 

3) If the receiver / dryer cap is definitely leaking and there is any sign of corrosion under the plastic cap, replace the condenser. This comes complete with the receiver dryer and is around

[Godxyon]

I am not sure how they tested it initially, but they recharged it (they said) and it all leaked out again. This was a while back though.

 

Last week I took it to another garage who regased it again with 800grms of refridge't and put some tracer dye in. Unfortunately they could not find any evidence of a leak under a UV lamp. We then ran they system for about 20mins but air was still blowing warm. So we concluded that the compressor was not running. ie knackered. But in the end it was a guess on his part, as you say maybe switch, clutch etc. Fortunately he did not charge me for the work. (obviously thought he would recoup the time under his 10hr works quote)

 

This is all why I am encouraged about the compressor tip and corroded cap lark. Sounds plausible to me. I am itching to have a look now. Problem is I suspect it involves bumper removal just to check as I could not previously get the grille off independently. Still nobody says life is easy.

 

This all sounds like good solid advice (and thanking you or it) so will have a look at condenser cap pronto and report back.

If I could get away with only a few hundres quids worth of work it would be a godsend..................oh nuts, maybe my hope has just jinxed it !

 

Fingers crossed and watch this space.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm a newbie........... I'm allowed to be stupid. [Galaxy 1.9TDi 2002 (51)]

[mumof4]

slightly off topic, when i was having work done on the vectra, on their discs, it gives a time on how long it takes to complete any given job.

[Godxyon]

Can anyone post up a photo or link showing the location of the condenser filter and the said cap and is it possible to check without strip down or does the bumper need to come off first?

cheers

mike....

Tim-spam has kindly been advising, but I have just given and inspection a go and you may be able to get the cap off the condenser by prisng the left hande part of the grille. If the cap is loose (like mine) you can get it off with your fingers and have a looksie. If it is tight then the bumper cover/grille needs to come off to get a better look. But I was surprised how easy the cover is to get off (with the right tools of course) I have attached some pics and explanations to get access below.

Bumper Cover:

undo 4 x allen key screws in each wheel arch

Remove 3 x pop fasteners holding the front lower section (get under front and have a look) On mine I needed to 'push' though the centre friction pin and the popper then dropped off

Undo 4 x grille screws on top

Wiggle like mad and the bumper cover disengages. Lower carefullly.

Then disconnect the 2 fog light and front sensor elec connectors. Job done

 

After I got the condenser/dryer cap off and it looked crusty alright. White aluminium type residue. I poured a little water in the top and guess what.....a stream of bubbles. Think I've found the leak :lol:

So thinking this has to be changed, and while I was here anyway, I got off the bumper bar off to access the condenser fixings. (2 are accessible and 2 are buried behind the bumper bar)

 

Bumper bar:

2 x 10mm spline head bolts each side

1 x T45 torx head bolt each side

(both socket heads bought from halfords for the job, amazing what a squishey bluetac template and spotty faced teen assisstant can get you !)

 

Compressor fixings:

Carefully drill out 4 neat holes through the fibre glass radiator chassis. Very easy stuff to work in, and trim to neat finish with a stanley knife. Thought I made a good job of it. The drivers side holes with receiver/dryer tube are shown below.

The next step is to work up the courage to change the condenser/dryer myself or get a garage to do. But at least I can reduce the garage bill by doing this prep work and reassembling as noted above. It took about 1.5 hour all in first time wrestling with the unfamilar fixings, but I know I can strip it down now for access in about 20 minutes.

I am off to buy some O rings, oi and a new condenser. Reeeeeeaaalyyy hope this sorts my problem.

Watch this space.

[gn8691]

Just about to attemp this myself.

Got the usual leak on the condenser / drier cap.

Just got to try and find my old spline bits now. ;)

[tim-spam]

Just one more thing - when the compressor clutch is energised, if you look down at the front of the pulley, you will be able to see the compressor start to rotate. The fact that the garage concluded that the compressor was not turning because the air wasn't cooling seems a little bizarre when a simple 'look-see' would prove it one way or the other.

 

Another simple test for the compressor is to switch off the engine, reach down to the front of the pulley and turn the centre section clockwise by hand. It should turn reasonably easily, but with some resistance (if there is no resistance at all, the compressor shaft could be sheared).

 

If it passes both of these simple tests, the compressor is probably OK.

Edited July 11, 2007 by tim-spam